007: Backing Yourself To Go Further
Meet Sarah Butcher • Forster, NSW
Bachelor of Urban & Regional Planning at University of New England
"I'm a mum, I've got three kids, I've got a partner who works away, this is not really an option for me... but I just had to back myself."
Today we're joined by Sarah Butcher, an Assistant Planner at MidCoast Council and is currently studying a Bachelor of Urban & Regional Planning. She's also a student at Taree Universities Campus. Let's dive in!
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Transcript
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Intro 00:12
Hi there. Thank you for joining us for Six Degrees of Study: An Uneducational Podcast. Today we have Sarah butcher, who is an assistant planner at MidCoast Council and is currently studying a Bachelor of Urban and Regional Planning at University of New England, and is a current student at Taree Universities Campus. We want to show you how it's highly likely there's only six degrees of separation between you, the career and the life you want. This is the Six Degrees podcast.
Donna Ballard 00:37
Hey, Sarah.
Sarah Butcher 00:38
Hi, Donna.
Donna Ballard 00:39
Welcome to our podcast.
Sarah Butcher 00:40
Thank you. Thanks for having me.
Donna Ballard 00:42
Thank you for being our very first student to actually record a podcast. Up until this point, we've been checking in with people in the community that completed their degree, perhaps quite a while ago, just recently, but they've all completed their degree. So they're talking about, you know, their study journey and where it's led them. So I'm very thrilled to welcome you as a current student, you've just enrolled with Taree Universities Campus to study through UNE. And that's making us very happy.
Sarah Butcher 01:12
Thank you. Yeah, it's been brilliant to be not only studying, but to have a base here where I can actually, you know, be face to face with people. If I've got anything I need assistance with it just makes it feel so much closer to home. Distance Education - and the thought of doing it - was very scary for me and did probably lead to putting it off for a lot longer than I thought. I would have taken the plunge maybe earlier if I had have felt more comfortable with sort of having Taree Universities Campus closer to home. So it's huge, definitely knowing it was in the pipelines and knowing that it was coming into the area definitely helped with my decision to study.
Donna Ballard 01:51
And it's quite interesting. We've now got our statistics, we've got around 60 people registered to study, which is exciting because it's growing every week. But in those numbers, the majority are female students, and more than a quarter are in that 30 to 40 age group. So it's really interesting that I guess you're in a way the typical demographic of the typical student that is choosing to study. So you chose Bachelor of Urban and Regional Planning, why did you make that choice? Why that particular degree?
Sarah Butcher 02:21
I became interested in town planning when I was 19. I started working for MidCoast Council in customer service prior to the amalgamation. I was working at Great Lakes Council at the time, and we only had customer service for the planning and building department. So I primarily worked in DA lodgement, understanding the requirements of planning, subdivision. But I was very young, I was 19. And I was moved back home for family reasons, I deferred studying - I was doing a Bachelor of Arts because I didn't know what I wanted to do. And as much as I loved planning, I didn't consider it at the time as a career path for me. All the planners were well into their 50s. We didn't have any young planners, it was very much a later-life career choice. And I just didn't see it as an opportunity. And then my life went down the avenue that it's gone down. And I got a job again, working back with MidCoast Council after having children and a few other career paths. Basically back doing the same thing. I was in what we call the building and development advisory team, which is the stepping stone between the customer and the DA assessment team, I guess. And I really realized that all of the knowledge that I gained when I was 19, I still had and that came from a place of passion. I still had all that knowledge because I clearly loved it and wanted to do it. So I started thinking about studying. And then I started thinking, "well hang on. I'm a mum, I've got three kids, I've got a partner who works away, this is not really an option for me". So I put it off. And then I took the plunge last July and applied. And there I am.
Donna Ballard 03:03
Yeah. And did you get support from your employer? I think a lot of people worry that the employer may not see it as a good idea to take further study. Did you get encouragement along the way?
Sarah Butcher 04:09
I did get encouragement. It came in different forms - it came mostly with people just identifying my passion and seeing that I loved what I was doing. And I knew what my boundaries of my work role were. But I tended to take my intrigue further into it in my own personal time. And I want to find out more information about why developments were going the way they were or what input was in them. And so people started saying, "you know, why don't you study? Have you thought about studying?" and then as I started to hear that more and more, I actually went to them and I said "look, I think I want to study something." A couple of people said "you know it's too much, you won't be able to take it on. It's huge." And other people went, "nah, you'll be great." So I just sort of had to back myself and then I haven't gone down the avenue of like any financial support or anything at this stage. I know council offer it, they do support people in the field that they're working in studying. And there is applications that you can do. I just haven't had the time. But they keep suggesting that I need to go down that avenue. So I found that they're very supportive.
Donna Ballard 05:15
Yeah, that's wonderful. So, UNE was your choice. Bachelor of Urban & Regional Planning with UNE is quite highly regarded, from what I understand. They're one of the really respected universities to be delivering that course.
Sarah Butcher 05:27
Yes, absolutely. Everybody recommended that's where I would go, some of our senior planners, actually majority of the senior planners all completed their Bachelor through UNE. So it wasn't really even a thought process.
Donna Ballard 05:40
And you're saying you're worrying about the time that it's going to take - how many units are you doing?
Sarah Butcher 05:46
I tried doing two units, but I'm going to do three trimesters. So I'm going to try to smash it out as early as I can. If I find that I'm struggling, I will drop it down just out of respect to the children and making sure I can keep up with my workloads. But at this stage, I'm going really well. So if I can keep managing that.
Donna Ballard 06:06
And that's really respectable two units is a half load of a full time degree. And you're working full time, right?
Sarah Butcher 06:13
Yes, yeah.
Donna Ballard 06:15
So are you accessing the Tara Universities Campus space? Is that actually working for you?
Sarah Butcher 06:21
Yes, it is, I haven't accessed it as much as I would like to. And we did have the flood, obviously. But I have been emailing I've got Marlo on email, which has been fantastic. I've had a very smooth journey so far with my studies. I have only had one sort of issue that I needed to get some help with, which was resolved, thankfully, with Marlo's help, and she was brilliant in just letting me know what avenues I could go down with communicating with the university if I wasn't having any luck via email, about the student grievance process with communication in relation to you know, courses and feedback that wasn't being delivered. But in terms of the physical space, I haven't been as present there as I would like to have been. But my friend Jess, who I roped in who, you know, arrived in to come and join me in there - we're gonna have, you know, study nights next, when everything sort of goes back to normal, and everyone sort of settled back into sport in school, we're going to do nighttime study dates there.
Donna Ballard 07:19
There's something that I know you mentioned to me earlier about the feeling that you felt you were being selfish by taking on study. And I'm hearing that from quite a few people, a few people that we've done these podcasts with in the past. And I can relate to that, I felt the same feeling while I was studying. How do you how do you overcome that? I guess, and how do you reassure people that it's okay to put yourself first?
Sarah Butcher 07:42
I think it's funny when you mentioned the age demographic, in relation to who has sort of enrolled and it does seem to be that there are a lot of, I know a lot of women who are either going back to uni now or wanting to go back but they toss & turn with the decision at night over the fact that you know you have this, I refer to it as mum guilt. It's not always mum guilt. It could be you know, relationships, it could be, you know, commitments to anything else, you've got committees or anything. And when you've got an established relationship, or an established family and home base, where everyone's sort of assumed their positions, it can be really difficult to put your hand up and say, "Oh, hang on, I'm going to upset the applecart and I'm going to do this for me." Because I think, you know, you can tend to get into this role of sort of ongoing monotony in life and you miss opportunities that you don't want to take because of fear of putting yourself first. And for me, it did definitely come down to what I classify as mum guilt, because I thought the kids have got so many commitments that they need for me, whether it be sport or schooling or homework, or just weekend run around that I thought, "where am I going to pull two to three hours a day for myself to study?" But I did it and it's surprisingly manageable, and so rewarding to feel like you've got something for yourself.
Donna Ballard 09:01
And I think it'll be even more rewarding for your family, as you move on through your studies, of course, and complete and move into a really professional career, when the future is going to be better for them.
Sarah Butcher 09:12
Yes, yes, huge. And for me, their career benefits are so worthwhile in the long run, whether it be a long career in local government, there's so many opportunities that are opened up for me, and for my family in the future. But I've got a 13 year old as well, who's not particularly studious, so it's really nice bribery with her, we'll go hang on, "you're gonna do your homework, because I've got to do my assignment. So let's sit down together." So I also use a little little 'I'm doing it too' tool and that really works for our family.
Donna Ballard 09:43
And I think it's such a good example to sit like I just said, I found out when you know, when my kids finished high school because they'd seen me studying, it wasn't to them a foreign idea to go to university where some of the others in their years weren't really taking that option. So I think it can set a good example sometimes.
Sarah Butcher 10:03
And I grew up my mother was a schoolteacher or she was in was a principal. And I knew she went to university and I knew she had all these expectations on me and what I was supposed to do. And you know, what the expectations with study and homework are. But I didn't see her do it. And I think that was different. I just knew what I had to do. But I think if I had have seen her do it and sit down and do it with me, my attitudes and my appreciation for what how hard she was working would have probably made a bit of a difference. I'm really hoping that pays off, actually with my teenager.
Donna Ballard 10:36
Yeah, I'm sure. And really, it seems like it's going to take years at the start. I remember feeling like it was gonna take me forever. And it did take me a long time. But really as you're working and you're going along, you're still earning income. Everything's still happening around you. And by the time you complete you've actually done it in probably less time than what you imagined it was going to at the start.
Sarah Butcher 10:56
Yeah. And I do feel that when you see your children succeed, you get this sense of pride, and it's so great. But when you feel yourself succeeding, for me submitting those assignments, and getting results, I've never felt more proud of myself, it's a completely different feeling.
Donna Ballard 11:12
Now Sarah I'd really like you to share your results, because I just recall you were a little bit worried about how you were going and, how have you gone?
Sarah Butcher 11:20
I have gone well, so far. So I've had two high distinctions and a distinction, I've got one to submit and an exam to go this week, but I am blown away with finding how I thought I needed to manage my time and that it's actually working. And then I'm achieving amongst work and parenting. So I'm really blown away.
Donna Ballard 11:43
And I think you do always tend to doubt yourself a little bit. And I think it was before your first assessment was back. You're like, "I don't know how I'm going".
Sarah Butcher 11:49
Yeah, I was very nervous, and I remember going to Marlo "I don't know what I'm gonna do. I don't know, I don't even know if I'm gonna pass." And then once you get that first one back, and it doesn't have to be you know, it's not the number that you get back to the succeeding, even submitting it on time and, and then it pushes you to do more.
Donna Ballard 12:07
Yeah, fantastic. And that's where that little bit of extra support can help. Just having someone to go to.
Sarah Butcher 12:13
And somebody to celebrate it with. I mean, the other thing is that when you're studying, and you studying in a family, a lot of people don't understand what it feels like, to study in that sort of academic situation. To have people that really get it and be able to say, "hey, look what I did!" And just feel proud. It's really nice feeling the little school community and you feel just like everyone really wants you to succeed.
Donna Ballard 12:37
Yes, it's just such a buzz for us. Like, as we're getting these responses back from a few students now. It's like, "wow, this is actually really happening and the supports really working." It's fairly exciting. So I'm just keen to know, Sarah, you mentioned that you started off with an arts degree straight out of school. And then you had some time away, and now you've come back to study. And that's just that same story that we're hearing from so many people. And that's what I really like to reassure to high school students. They often feel they've got to have it all mapped out, they've got to have exactly what they're going to do, that they can't change their mind that, once they're committed, they're in it. So I guess what's your story? You start off with an arts degree and then..?
Sarah Butcher 13:17
I cannot cannot agree with you more there. I enrolled to Bachelor of Art because the expectation was I was going to go to uni and everyone in my family went to uni. And that's what was going to happen. And I had no idea what I wanted to do. So I decided to enroll to the University of Newcastle and a Bachelor of Arts, I enrolled in just subjects that I was interested in, that would continue on. I wasn't passionate about what I was doing. I was working full time as well, I got a full time job just working in a bank in Newcastle. Because I didn't love what I was doing. I wasn't committed to it. I probably wasn't - I was completing things, but not not how I would have liked to. I moved back to the area and transferred my degree to distance education because my mother was not well. So I moved back to Forster. And that's when I started, I was still studying the Bachelor of Arts while working at Great Lakes Council and then my job took over my passion and my uni sort of fell to the wayside. So I deferred for a year. And then I ended up deferring for a second year because my mum was unwell. She did pass away. And as a result of that, I decided that I wanted to transfer my degree to Nursing. Because I'd spent a lot of time in nursing. I had a boyfriend who was a nurse at the time, I was living with a house full of nurses at the time, and I just decided, "Well, I didn't want to stop studying, but I didn't know what I wanted to do." So I then changed to a Bachelor of Nursing and that just sort of fizzled out. I continued on and continued on with it just because I knew I had to and then I got pregnant. So that really stopped.
Donna Ballard 14:52
Another relatable story.
Sarah Butcher 14:53
Yeah, that's right. So then I got pregnant and then I got pregnant again pretty much straightaway and that was it. I unenrolled from nursing and I just put it on the backburner and thought, "that's it. Now I've had children, it's gone, it's dead in the water, and it's not something I'm going to be able to take up again." And then here we are six years later, and it's never too late. I actually know what I want to do now. And I've said it a million times to people at work that until this point in my life, I never would have known that this is what I wanted to do. But I've never been more sure about where I'm supposed to be. So you know, it doesn't matter where you are or what age you are. Sometimes it just takes that life experience to decide what it is you want to do. And I think it can make you a more well rounded, more confident student too, in a way you're not questioning so much like you're just getting on and doing what you feel is right nd confident enough to do that. So yeah, like I'm saying a lot of our students are in that 30 to 40 age group, a lot of women that are studying so I feel like we're really filling a niche there for that age group was, which is really encouraging as well. Thank you, Sarah. It's been absolutely wonderful to connect with you and hear your story. And I'm so excited. I'm so excited that you're studying and that you're started on this journey with us. And I can't wait till we get to the end of those years and you know, you're wearing the cap and the gown! Thank you, Sarah. Thank you, Donna. Thanks so much.
Outro 16:23
Thanks for listening to today's episode of the Six Degrees podcast. This podcast is produced by UpBound Business Consultants and is brought to you by Taree Universities Campus. Based on the New South Wales Barrington Coast, TUC is a hub for supporting Distance Education study for university students with campus facilities, mentoring, post grad career opportunities, and more. If you'd like to share your story, you can send us an email at podcast@tareeuni.org.au and let us know your unconventional road to a degree. Until next time.